(no subject)

[camper4lyfe]

Yesterday, my gf, princessfrog and my ex, skyes got into a bit of a bout.
The short of it:
skyes posted about the way she was feeling, and things she was thinking, and essentially asking for advice (isn't that what usually happens on LJ anyway?). My gf, being the kind person she is, offered her thoughts and advice on the subjects mentioned (short and sweet telling her to stop living in the past, get past her past, and live in the present).
Apparently the answers given were not the ones that my ex wanted to hear. A spitting match ensued, where my ex drew ME into the argument by sending me an email on an assumption that I had read the comments prior to them being posted (which was true) instead of replying to the original comment. I forwarded the email on to my girlfriend, at which time she replied to the email. This only fueled the fire at which time, the two exchanged emailes a couple more times. I then get an email later in the day saying that the friendship I had with said ex, has been eliminated.

A little summary. The topics discussed were of a personal manner, and my gf was trying to relate to the experiences that my ex had gone through. The response to the comments that my gf received were essentially a slap in the face and a big 'fuck you'. My gf exposed herself and shared very intimate deatils of her life, and they were thrown back in her face and salt was poured into her open wounds. This sent her off into a tirade (understandabley so).

I would like to say, before you continue, that the things that Shell said have been thoughts in my mind for a few years, but I have not been able to say them (call it lack of guts, call it trying to protect a friend, call it whatever you wish). Shell was acting as a friend towards Skye in trying to HELP her, as I should have over the past few years.

Ok...I decided to post the actual posts...here they are...(warning...it's LONG)
* * * * * *
every night, i look forward to talking to E. it's my good night charm, my favorite form of sleeping pill, his voice bottled up nicely over the lines and in the phone.

most of the time, we have our sweet and magical conversations that reach back 8 years and then some. some nights we argue, some nights he's too tired for much else than a quick "how was your day?" and then going to sleep.

and some nights go wonderfully till the last 5 minutes, when a phrase will escape his mouth that hurts. a deep stab into he heart. i close my eyes and breath through it.

last night was one of those nights.

"Well, Mom wanted a Family day..."
i have no right to be angry, jealous or hurt. i don't. she has every right to her son. and i see him more than she does, i get his attention and affection. it's right and fair that a mother should have time with her son without the girlfriend around.

but, the stab is this : i'm not family. i'm still the token outsider. 8 years of trials and tribulations. of friendships, and i am still the outsider.
and, even if he did ask me to go, to join their party, i would not. i am uninvited and that to me is more than enough reason to stay away, to back away. that statement sent me back a few years in this mind of mine, and i'm confused, rattled and hurt.

another instance has me rattled and wondering. and in true taking my journal back style, i'm going to tackle it. He never stays online, never leaves an away message up.
since a certain young woman he once had feelings for imed him, since they spoke, it's been up every day. he makes sure he puts it up before bed.
i'm telling myself that even having a splash of jealousy or doubt is as foolish as i could be.
but he never left the away message up before she came around again.
i'm clinging to my beliefs, telling myself not to doubt, that this is just another test.

But if life has taught me anything, it's when you give your heart to someone, when you give your trust to someone, they WILL suddenly back away. all those proclamations of love will turn out to be lies, all the hopes and dreams you painted together will turn out to be your imagination alone, and his words, uttered in an attempt not to hurt you.

"I didn't want to hurt you."

then why did you LIE to me?! it was years ago, i should have healed from this hurt and this fear long ago, and i of all people have no RIGHT to mourn it.

i'm leaving j. i have no right to mourn being left.

being left for someone else. being left for someone you know. being left because they don't love you any more.
or never did.

in the instance i'm speaking of, it was years ago, before i even met j. a case of runaway hormones and puppylove stretched too thin. i was looking for someone to love.

and i'm wondering in a dark corner of my mind if all the sweetness and words uttered between E and i are going to just come tumbling down. when we had our momentary break up, i resolved myself that i would NOT let him crush me the way others had. i resolved that i am much stronger than any man i ever dated could understand. it hurt, i cried.
but i got through it.

and i'm slowly building up those fortress walls i tore down for him. one stone at a time. but i change my mind and start taking them down. a constant cycle of being hurt and putting a stone or two up, but then forgiving and taking it down. will i ever learn to just let go and trust?

how sad is it that if i'm asked to do a "trust fall" i will utterly refuse? even, or especially with E? i'm happier being blind to the fact that he may just drop me. or maybe i'm happier being blind to the fact that he may just catch me when i fall...

once bitten, twice shy.

i've been stupid in my past, i've been bitten so many times i should be immune to this particular brand of venom. but i keep trying to play snake charmer and bee charmer, trusting and having faith in instincts that were created to wound and destroy.

i'm winding myself up in circles and trying to find reasons to believe or not to believe. whenever i find myself trusting utterly again, something comes along and reminds me how dangerous it is.

i decide to take a chance and admit to myself how serious this has become.
within a week he backs away saying he can't make me happy.

this frightens me and make me wonder if i really should be taking the risk of considering a serious life match with someone who tends to head for ground and break when stressed. i just get harder and stronger.

i don't want or need a Savior or a Knight in shining armor ( or amore).
i need someone like myself, someone who's been formed and hardened beyond breaking by pressures and stresses. someone who has clawed their way from the depths of it all to raise their face to the sunlight.

i need someone like me. diamond hard.
maybe it's why i don't like them so much anymore, because i look at them and i see what my heart is becoming, hardening to.

and i remember the moments of happiness i've had by his side, and how i've learned to feel young and innocent again, how it really seems that 99.9999% of the time that this is something good, that we are good for each other.

but i'm so afraid of being hurt again that i'm staring to lock myself away and prepare for it.

will i ever learn to love like i've never lost? or will i always have these damned shadows following me around? Yes, i am a rape survivor. yes, i was beaten. yes, my own father beat me. yes, i've been in accidents, seen death, deal with my own diseases and illness! have i not dealt with enough? !
will i never escape the damned voice in my head telling me i don't deserve to be with a good and decent man, that all i ever am is some cheap whore until they meet the woman they REALLY want to be with.

"of course you're good in bed, that's what whores are good for, and nothing else. now be a good one and lay yourself down and do what you do BEST."

i feel that no matter what, this voice will keep telling me i'm just a substitute for everyone's true loves. i've told people a million times, i am a catalyst, i don't cause change, i'm just part of it.
i just AM it.
and they will only need me around till they are done changing, and then they leave. it's my function. love and nurture and let go.

maybe it's time to go back to those delirious roots. Jeff used to tell me my mind wasn't in reality 98% of the time. was i happy then? or was i just doing a really good job fooling myself into believing i was?

will i feel better when i hit post and get this all out and into other eyes, will i fool myself into believing people understand me? will the professor and Dr. Smith rescue princess Buttercup before the screaming eels eat her alive?

too many questions. not enough answers.



And the comment:
* * * * * *
Skye~
The answers are there for those brave enough to look and listen...

While you and I have been *aware* of each other for almost three years, had a few lengthy phone conversations, and have met only once in *real life*, I doubt either one of us would consider the other a *friend*. So, instead of posting in the spirit of friendship, I submit the following comments and observations in the spirit of sisterhood. Having said that...please take what I am about to say in the spirit in which it is presented, and try not to get caught up in the natural, knee-jerk reaction of defensiveness. Keep in mind, I fully expect you to not only delete this when you receive it, but have also resigned myself to being banned from your journal. That is a risk I am willing to take.
I have mainly been a vouyer in the *Epic of Skye*. Once in a while I will post a benign comment here or there, but for the most part I have been content to sit back and observe.
No one is perfect. EVER. We all have our own flaws and psychoses: ways of presenting ourselves to others, and reasons for acting in different ways with different people. It's human nature. But I can't be anyone other than who I am...which is a very concerned, BLUNT person who tends to hurt while trying to help. Please know that I am NOT trying to draw blood here, but I see it happening anyway...

What exactly is it you want from life? Honestly. I want you to think long and hard about that before you continue reading this. You SAY you want to be independent. That's a wonderful goal. But can you honestly say that's what you REALLY want by how you live your life? You rant and rave about how strong you are, how independent you are, how you don't need anyone but your cats and your close cirlce of friends in your life. Yet, how long did it take you to learn to drive? You can't even go see E without someone to take you there. Your job history is discouraging, at best. I see you taking on more than you are qualified to do, getting ovewhelmed by the responsibilities required, and being down right stunned when you are let go.

Have you ever heard the phrase: *She's not happy unless she's UNhappy*? That is SO YOU. You say you want things to change,and you may even really believe that! Yet you keep putting yourself in the same situations expecting different results. You get married to j...make a lifetime committment to this man who loves you and wants to be with you. Then you not only cheat on him, but do it with someone who was living with you and act like it's a big game in the process. So you leave one man when you have another lined up. That, too, is human nature. No one wants to be alone. Have you EVER lived alone? From what I have seen, the answer is no...and if you have, then I'd bet money that it wasn't for long.

You carry your rape around like a cross that weighs you down. You have taken martyr-dom to new heights! If your goal was, in fact, to BE a martyr, you have succeeded beyond belief! You have got to learn to let it go. I KNOW the pain you are carrying around...intimately. I have been raped not once, but TWICE. I, too, got pregnant the first time and lost it. I was also given Herpes in the process, so I'd say I MORE than qualify to share my opinion and experiences with you on the subject. Yes, it was painful. Yes, it changed your life. And yes, it's a part of who you are. But I have news for you: if you let it BECOME who you are, he has won. It's not easy to do. Goddess knows I'm reminded of him every time I have a breakout. But I get through it, and I'm stronger for it.

You have also talked at different times about the abuse that you suffer at the hands of various people in life. You are not alone in that. You have a choice: you can allow people to abuse you, or you can say *ENOUGH*! and surround yourself with people who wouldn't THINK of trying it. My egg donor is a prime example. The woman is a multiple personality laden, drug addicted, selfish, manipulative, abusive alcoholic who thinks of no one but herself. She has been surgically removed from my life like a tumor, only this one will NEVER return. My first husband threw me off the balcony of our 3rd floor apartment. Picked me up by my BREASTS and tossed me clean over. He is no longer in my life.

I see you making so many different mistakes that are so easy to avoid, and I cry for you. I can tell you right now without having done more than read today's journal what's going on with E: you have put too much pressure on him and it's scaring the shit out of him. I have news for you: men do NOT want to be overwhelmed with responsibility...especially when it's taking on the responsibility of another person. They want a strong, independent woman who can take care of herself for the most part, but needs to lean on them once in a while. How would YOU like to be handed the responsibility of a man who won't ( or can't ) drive anywhere, can't keep a job, who sits on the computer writing mindless bullshit and does nothing but complain about how bad life has been to them while living in the past? You would RUN...and so is he. What is it about this other woman that has grabbed his attention? What is it about YOU that has chased him away?

I get so sick of all these so called friends of yours who do nothing but pat you on the head and tell you how wonderful and misunderstood you are. I have only seen ONE who had the balls to tell you the truth, and you blasted his ass to hell and back for caring enough about you to NOT buy into the bullshit. You surround yourself with people who either don't care enough to see the truth and tell you how life really is or who are too naive to do anything but follow what you say blindly, feeding into this need you have for attention.

You are better than that. I KNOW you are. I have seen the strength in you and the maturity that slips out in unexpected moments. I know this is your safe place to vent, and I apologize if you feel I have violated that. But you are living in a fantasy world and mere mortals just can't stay in your world for long without needing to come back to Earth for a reality check.

Why are you referring to yourself as a whore? Is it because you truly feel that way? ( In which case, I'd take immediate steps to rectify THAT situation! ) Or is it another attempt to get your circle to surround you and tell you you're NOT? Either way, it's not healthy! If you project negative things, that's all you'll get back. In spades. Rule of 3, remember?
There's a lot of truth to *fake it til ya make it*. It's been scientifically proven that if you expect good things, they will happen. It has also been proven that if you expect bad things, they, too, will happen.

If you are honestly looking for answers, I am confident that I have given you a few, and pointed you in the right direction. If, however, this is another attention getting ploy, then it will be deleted. I'm curious to see what you have to say.
~Shell


The email I received:
* * * * * * *
You and i are friends Jeff. what i wrote about in my journal today did have somethng to do with you, but mainly with E and i, and how i'm dealing with various issues. what Shell did today, to be very frank, has made it clear to me that i really don't want contact with her. i'll keep her on my friends list for you, i won't ban her from commenting for you, because of what we have been able to build from our past.

i want to be able to stay friends and keep in contact with you.

I'm sure you saw the commens long before they were posted. and whether you agreed with them or not, i frankly don't care. i just wanted to touch base and let you know that i'm not harbouring negativity towards YOU, but towards my own emotional dealings at hand.

thanks.


The reply to the email
* * * * * * * *
Well, I see I was right. First screened, then deleted, now I'm *unauthorized* to respond.

Don't feel like you have to do me or Jeff any favors by allowing me continued access to your journal.

My mistake for treating you like and adult.
My mistake for having cared about what happened to you.
My mistake for thinking you were mature enough to look outside your comfort zone.
My mistake for sharing my own experiences.
My mistake for trying to help.
MY MISTAKE.

Don't worry, unlike you, I learn from MY mistakes.

~Shell


The response to THAT
* * * * * * * * *
i had a long thought out response to this. and your comments, but then i realized something, your actions today were HATEFUL, you took a wonderful oppotunty to dump all over me and make yourself look like a life guru and a wise woman. but in doing so, you made statements that were judgemental and laughably untrue. I shared those comments with E, i will be kind and not give you his replies.You lectured me on threefold law, but you made blatent attacks.

You and i are not friends. we are not sisters. we both survived being raped and are both in unfortunate and abusive marriages that we both want out of and both strive to leave. that is where the similarities end.

your responding to an e-mail sent to Jeff crosses all kinds of boundries, but i'm letting it go.

Jeff, we'll resolve this either by severing the friendship, or working something out so your relationship can continue within the comfort zone that you two share. i had hoped that what i say to you can remain confidential, as this has been an issue in the past. But, in both cases, it has the same effect, a blow out between two parties, resolution for the best.

i've said my part. i wash my hands of it.


The reply to THAT email (this is getting long!)
* * * * * * *
**i had a long thought out response to this. and your comments, but then i realized something, your actions today were HATEFUL, you took a wonderful oppotunty to dump all over me and make yourself look like a life guru and a wise woman. but in doing so, you made statements that were judgemental and laughably untrue. I shared those comments with E, i will be kind and not give you his replies.You lectured me on threefold law, but you made blatent attacks.**

Here we go again with poor, pitiful, Skye. You are proving once again that you don't have the maturity to deal with me one on one. You run to E, you run to Jeff, then when you get to me, you turn it all back on yourself as though you are the injured party. **shakes head** You are just proving my point that if life is unpleasant or someone tells you something you do not want to hear, THEY are wrong and evil. Grow up!

1 ) I fail to see how anything I said in that post was hateful. Even in the email, when I pointed out that I learn from MY mistakes wasn't hateful, simply a matter of fact.

2 ) I never claimed to be a life guru or a wise woman, though I AM wise. I was simply sharing 33 years of similar experiences with you which you read and all but said *fuck you* to.

3 ) Again, I was not being judgemental. I was making an educated observation based on the information you provided. Any errors in information rest solely in your hands.

4 ) Explain to me why it is ok for you to share all of this with E, yet you are angry with Jeff for having shared it with me?

5 ) And, since we're on the subject, why is it that you were unable to tell ME how you felt, but were immediately compelled to write Jeff and tell him how negative and unsupportive I was being?

6 ) You will *be kind* and not share those responses with me? Why start now? I'd say you have been everything BUT kind towards me today, when all I have been doing is sharing a different, honest, point of view.

7 ) Show me the blatant attacks? I have read and re-read every word I have written and don't see anything even remotely resembling an attack. If you are referring to the e-mail in which I listed MY MISTAKES, those were mine, not yours.

**You and i are not friends. we are not sisters. we both survived being raped and are both in unfortunate and abusive marriages that we both want out of and both strive to leave. that is where the similarities end.**

1 ) I remember specifically saying we are not friends.

2 ) The sister reference was in both being female.

3 ) Yes, we have both been raped, and are both in bad marriages.

**your responding to an e-mail sent to Jeff crosses all kinds of boundries, but i'm letting it go.*

Apparently not, since you brought it up. But again, the issue you had was with ME, not him, so technically YOU are the one who brought him into it.

**Jeff, we'll resolve this either by severing the friendship, or working something out so your relationship can continue within the comfort zone that you two share. i had hoped that what i say to you can remain confidential, as this has been an issue in the past. But, in both cases, it has the same effect, a blow out between two parties, resolution for the best.**

1 ) Resolving any trust issues between you and Jeff is between you and Jeff. But just as you have the right to share your life with E, he has the right to share his with me.

2 ) And don't flatter yourself into thinking for one INSTANT that anything you say or do will have ANY impact on MY relationship with him.

**...working something out so your relatonship can continue within the comfort zone that you two share...**

Again, my relationship with Jeff is off limits to you. Period. You don't have that kind of power in MY life.

For the record, I grew up with a woman like you. One who can NOT for the life of her admit she's wrong or made a mistake. One who picks one little thing out of entire converstion and puts all her energy and focus on it. One who turns everything into a pity party and feels that all the world is against her. One who reaches for ANY excuse not to look at herself and her own actions, for fear of what she might see, but instead CHOOSES to go on the defensive and attack those around her who dare disagree. One who refuses to take control of her life and accept the responsibility for her actions.

Yes, I am wise. Yes, I am a survivor. And no, your opinion has no bearing on how I live my life. I am in control of my life, and I refuse to give that control to anyone, least of all you.

What I said wasn't hateful. It just wasn't the pat on the head that you wanted or needed. How you choose to take it is not my fault, nor is it my responsibility. I admit that I made a mistake in caring, and in thinking that you HONESTLY wanted an answer to your questions, when all you really wanted was for people to gather around you and pat you on the head and and join the *poor Skye* pity party. I now know, and acknowledge that I WAS WRONG. Shame on me for trying to do the right thing. Shame on me for believeing you when you said you needed answers. Shame on me for not realizing sooner that you are never going to change and you are very happy in the world you have created. Shame on me for trying to help someone to not make the same mistakes I made. Shame on me for sharing my wisdom. **And it harm none.** My intentions were pure, even if the results were not, and shame on YOU for not being able to see that.

~Shell


And the FINAL email that was sent to me:
* * * * * * *
you can share this if you like.

i'm going to look at this as my last e-mail to you.

she makes you happy. that's all that matters.

but it's not giong to help any situation here for you and i to remain in contact.

have a lovely life, be happy, be good to each other.

i'm bowing out.




In closing, I would like to say that I agree 100% with Shell, and with what she said and I stand behind her words and her decisions 120%.